Friday, 13 May 2016

Male/Female?

         
                             Résultat de recherche d'images pour "restroom sign"

As far as I am aware, in the USA it is now legally OK for men dressed as women, to use women's public loos.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I was to wear a long wig, stuff a couple of socks up my jumper, and wear high heels, I would be perfectly within my rights to enter a Ladies 'restroom'. In fact one US state which refused to accept this new ruling (North Carolina?) was threatened with withdrawal of certain Federal funding if they didn't follow suite.

Personally I find this all rather odd. Whereas one has sympathies with genuine cases of gender realignment, one certainly wouldn't sympathise with the few weirdos who will no doubt test the ruling by doing what I suggest above.

Do American women really want this new Federal law; maybe it was pushed through by a bunch of men who simply want access to women's loos. Are American women OK with this?

Where will the law draw the line? Who will be on hand to decide if someone is a genuine transgender person, or just dressing-up for a laugh? Will women dressed as men have to right to use the 'Gents'?

Maybe we are seeing the emergence of the Uni-Sex US Loo.




58 comments:

  1. Assuming that we are all civilized I don't see the problem. I have used men's loos (mainly out of despair and because their queues tend to be shorter - even at beer festivals).

    However, the following anecdote comes to mind. Nothing to do with the States. Location: Waterloo (yes, really), London, UK.

    On disembarking the train, coming from the South Coast, the Angel (that's my son) needed the toilet. Urgently. He was, say, I don't know, twelve. Ten. Whatever. So I took him. To the "Ladies". The public toilet attendant told me in no uncertain terms that, on account of his gender, he was not allowed into the "Ladies". Was she taking the piss or something? Not that I said as much - but then thoughts are free. I didn't even bother to test her intelligence by asking whether she'd rather THIS lady (me) take him into the Gents'.

    Was that woman ticking ok? I have a sunny outlook on people. I think most are decent. Yet, to send your young son (in absence of a father, grandfather, uncle, male friend) to a public toilet in WATERLOO (of all places) without a chaperone? Got to be joking. I ignored that woman. A child needs to go, I am his mother and he is with me. At which point she didn't press it [the point] any further. End of story. Ridiculous, don't you agree?

    U

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My wife always used to take our boys to the 'Ladies' when they were young... I thought it was normal.

      But, re the above; I'm just testing the water.

      Delete
  2. A lot of the new toilets here are unisex.

    Yesterday, I completed a survey and was asked "male, female or other".

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  3. 'Toiletgate' is going on in the organisation that I work for as we speak. The bulletin board on the internal website is keeping my office very amused. One of the ideas to keep transgender people appeased is to have loos marked 'Men' and 'Not Men'!

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  4. Many Italian public places' toilets (cafes etc) are "bi-sex", also because there is always a single cloakroom, only that men sometimes miss the target and woman sometimes do not wrap used items when disposed in the appropriate bins; both such behaviour is disgusting.
    Greetings Maria x

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    Replies
    1. Thanks to Dave M's comment, I correct: "unisex" and not "bi-sex". I was stuck on that word, wasn't sure of it when I commented :-)

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    2. Maybe with uni-sex loos, both would amend their bahaviour.

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  5. With the way attitudes are changing, I suspect we'll end up with unisex public toilets everywhere eventually. Whether that's good or bad I wouldn't like to say, but I don't think it would bother me.

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    Replies
    1. No, it wouldn't bother me either, but I never use them anyway.

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  6. I fear the graffiti may suffer if toilets become uni-sex, the graffiti in ladies toilets is quite outstanding to say the least.

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    1. You never know, uni-sex graffiti could be very interesting.

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  7. I try never to use public loos (don't ask) but I do have a transgeder grand son/daughter who is delightful but does have gender issues which have blighted his life since the age of fourteen. What he thinks about this issue I don't know, but I will ask him.

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    Replies
    1. I don't use them either. It would be interesting to hear what he (she) thinks.

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  8. You might have to shave off your beard Cro ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Have you not seen bearded Drag Queens? I have!

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  9. Actually Cro you do not have to be dressed like a woman at all merely identify at that moment in time as female. The law also forbids people from challenging or questioning them and fines go up to $250,000. Even the police may not remove them unless they are commuting a criminal act so male and female sex offenders are free to one as many children as they like totally unhindered. Utterly demented in my opinion.

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    Replies
    1. So, my penultimate para' was in vain? I'm still waiting to hear from US women.

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  10. Maybe they should introduce a third category called 'indeterminate'. Not sure what the picture would be for that one though. (Would love to see you in a long wig and high heels!)

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  11. I'm leaving for work in a minute so I'm pressed for time, but I would like to come back later and comment on this. I will say this: I heard this described as "a solution without a problem" and I agree.

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  12. For years I worked in a company with two bathrooms--unisex. The major problem was the damn men leaving the seat up. The days before self closing lids. Seat position was the only problem, and still would be.

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  13. Hi Cro, interesting one. I definitely don't want a man in the public toilets I go to and I don't want to go to the men's !

    ReplyDelete
  14. I am from Canada. As usual what the US does, Canada is not far behind. Right now, we have a case before the court where, at that time, the child was seven. He started coming to class dressed as a girl. The school said he could not use the girls washroom. Hence, now they are in court. I live in a rural area and now it has come up here. The school board has hammered this all out with the government once and now it looks like it may be round two. I am not for it for the reason already stated that sex offenders go both ways. Also, who can argue that some may go into one or the other and actually have sex. I don't think it is good where young children are concerned. None of my family use public bathrooms. We now have another problem here where due to this men are just going outside - anywhere.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No doubt Canada has adopted some of our foul French customs; of course we pee outside, especially out in the countryside.

      Delete
  15. I'm Canadian but spend 1/3 year in the US and I have no issue with it at all. First ladies toilets are all cubicles within, so I'm not peeing in front of men. Second, one assumes that men in mens and women in womens protects children from pedophiles which does not address those men that prey on boys or women on girls. Isn;t that what the argument is about? So what bloody difference does it make really if you are trying to protect your children. Most parents accompany their child to the washroom when they are young anyway.We are not protecting our kids by assuming that their same gender won't hurt them. I think that transgendered people should be allowed to go to whichever restroom makes them feel safer. And even before this law, I bet there were a few odd freaks to posed as the opposite to get into washrooms.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I wasn't so much thinking about Paedophiles, more about if women would feel uncomfortable with cross-dressing men in their domain.

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  16. i'd imagine the ladies loos are terribly dull, they are all hidden away in cubicles. surely we should be more worried about the women who may dress up as men to pop in the gents and have a penis peeping session at the troughs? :P

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    Replies
    1. Rachel, above, suggests that the 'Ladies' contains much better quality Graffiti than the 'Gents'. Would women really want to go 'Penis Peeping'?

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  17. just give them a bathroom of their own. Sign it with question mark for those who don't know what they are.

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    Replies
    1. His, hers, and whatever takes your fancy!

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  18. I am waiting for a statement from our future President Trump on this issue. Lots of the buildings with his name on it have public bathrooms.

    Many shops and restaurants and small workplaces have a single restroom. Everyone is welcome to use it, just not at the same time. It is always the hope, if not the reality, that everyone will leave the facilities in a clean state. One of my responsibilities as a former retail shop manager was to keep the single bathroom clean. Not my favorite task. Each gender can cause a mess.
    Perhaps it is the larger shared restrooms that open the door to controversy?
    Best wishes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. With a single loo, surely there would be no problem. On planes and trains this is the case. It's with the larger facilities where I would have imagined there could be 'anxiety'.

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  19. They aren't men, Cro. More than likely your wife has already been in a public restroom with a trans female. And, you have been in a public restroom with a trans man. Actually, YOU could pass for a trans man. (just say'n)

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  20. The American women I know are NOT ok with this federal law.

    Target (a chain store here) caved to pressure from the Obama administration and liberal activists. They have announced that any “transgendered” person can use the bathroom in their stores, according to the gender they associate with - which means a man may simply walk into the ladies and it is legal. Many say they will no longer shop at Target stores.

    This is what I hear from American women:

    "Women have rights too. No men in our bathroom"

    "I don't care what your son 'identifies as' he doesn't belong in the bathroom with my daughter"

    "Stop forcing the transgender issue"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for that Sandy. This is exactly what I was wondering; on BOTH sides of the argument

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  21. US female here; I substitute teach in a district in which every classroom has a unisex bathroom. The kids take turns using it and since everyone knows who was in there last, it stays clean and next-user-friendly....no problems. Since public bathrooms are often the scene of some crime, maybe it's time for small private public unisex bathrooms? What happened to our majority rules nation??

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    Replies
    1. Having once taken a train down from Madrid to the South of Spain, in order to cross by ferry to Morocco, nothing now shocks me re the state of public loos. I still have sympathy for whoever had to clean them.

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  22. First, as an American woman I have no problem with transgender women using the same multi-stall public bathroom that I use. (I have no problem with men using it either.) I do not understand what the controversy is about. It can't be about pedophilia, which is already illegal. If it's just about discomfort, I don't think it can compare to the discomfort that a trans person feels being in the wrong body for their entire life.
    Second, there is no federal law about this. In Virginia a federal appeals court recently decided that public schools must allow students to use the bathrooms that match their gender identity. A few other states have enacted policies that do the same. But there is no law and there is no stated fine for infringement of this right.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. You've stated my feelings about this issue very well.

      -another American woman

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    2. That's very reassuring from you both. re The Federal Law bit; the programme I was listening to recently must have got it wrong, although much came from the US.

      Delete
  23. they are called gender neutral toilets. There was a programme years ago called Ally McBeal, they had unisex toilets in that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As I said above, we have no problems in trains or planes!

      Delete
  24. This is a big deal over nothing. People have been doing this for years and there has been no problem. Just go into a stall, do your business, and leave.

    I can understand that transgender young people might encounter bullying either way and my heart goes out to them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It really is a big deal over nothing.

      Delete
  25. So I am German, and I live in the US. I am somewhat undecided on this issue. But I am firm in wanting privacy when I have to go to a public loo. That sounds like a contradiction because 'privacy' and 'public' don't go together, but what I mean is this: A lot of public toilet stalls here in the US have a door with a centimeter wide gap all around. No privacy there. I have always hated that and much prefer the completely closed off stalls that you usually find in Germany. I am already uncomfortable in a public restroom when there are other women around, having transgenders around would be equal to that, I guess. People are people. But what would piss me off would be some scummy peeping toms, who can now use this new law, dress up a little, get into the ladies' loo and get their fix. Awesome.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Peeping Tom's could do that anyway, if they wanted to. And I swear, all the ranting and raving going on among Conservatives here about men "dressing up to peep" is going to give perverts ideas that they hadn't had before. Awesome.

      Delete
    2. Cro brought up a topic for discussion, and I gave my opinion. So did you. But that you end your comment with the same word that I used gives me the feeling that you've got your 'fighting britches' on. If I'm wrong - good. If my perception is right - then what the heck?

      Delete
    3. No fighting britches (??) here. "Awesome" seemed like a good follow up to a comment about something that makes me roll my eyes.

      Delete
    4. A law is not going to encourage or stop scumbags. What will this all come to? Will we have to have police outside toilets checking IDs.

      Delete
  26. Just to finish with, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with this. The debate I was listening to recently covered almost every aspect imaginable, and nothing convinced me that there would be any problems.

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  27. I always recall the first time as an adult I went into a public toilet (probably on an autoroute) only to find males and females sharing. After the initial shock (I was quite young) it never seemed a problem again.

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    Replies
    1. Sorry the original comment disappeared and in my irritated haste I didn't say a public toilet in France.

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  28. Cro, I can't believe we are even having this discussion. With all that's wrong in the world, seriously we are squabbling over where to go pee. It's an unbelievable distraction of what's really happening in my USA country.

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  29. Oh, yeah, and to make a clarification men don't even have to be dress like a woman to go into the women's bathroom. It has filtered down to the schools as well.

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