Sunday, 21 February 2016

In Out, In Out, Shake It All About.


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There is no question that the June 23rd referendum on the UK's continued membership of the EU will be decided on emotion rather than on economic wisdom.

Newspaper headlines in The Mail such as 'Polish immigrant crime figures top of list', or 'Romanian pickpocket gangs run amok', will sway voters far more readily than studying the finer points of Cameron's deal with Brussels in the Financial Times.

Frankly, sending tax payers money abroad, to the children of migrant workers, doesn't really affect any of us, whereas having our valuables stolen by Polish burglars certainly does, and one couldn't blame any such victim for voting to pull-out.

Lady Magnon, Kimbo, and myself, were discussing the in/out pros and cons recently, and none of us has yet to come to any conclusion. Somehow I think most final decision making will go to the wire, and will probably depend on those biased headline writers from Fleet Street.

I'm beginning to wonder if it'll make that much difference whichever way the vote goes. For the moment there's not much passion from either camp!



40 comments:

  1. The EU has become a band of squabbling has-beens and less significant in the world than in '67 or '75. Now is the time to come out and move on. Maybe.

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    1. I shall definitely be voting one way or the other!

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    2. ....and I did hear this morning that the EU's GDP could fall by 20% if the UK quits; not a good prospect for Brussels.

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    3. Where will the UK move on to, Rachel? There doesn't seem to be any clear cut future offered as an alternative.

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    4. We do not only trade with Europe, we trade more with the US than the EU as it is I believe. However. if we are not in the EU we will be clobbered with tariffs and unfavourable conditions without doubt and will have no say in them. All questions about what happen if we come out are unfortunately unanswerable until it actually happens. No gain without pain. I am not for being in a club and not being a full member of the gang so I think all measures negotiated by Cameron will make us damned at all future talks if we remain in. I don't think we should be pushed into voting to stay in on the security/fear ticket either. But like most people I don't know how I will vote at the moment. Perhaps I'll just go to Glastonbury.

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    5. And don't forget that all EC countries would have to face new import tariffs to send their cars, white goods, and agricultural products to Britain!

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  2. I wonder how leaving the EU will affect Brits living in France (or Spain, Italy, etc) and how long it would take such changes to take effect.

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    1. As an expat, I wonder that myself. Initially, possibly not a great deal, I would think, but in the long term, things are bound to change for us. Medical care, and the possible cost, is the prime concern for all us over 65's.
      One thing I do think will happen is that the Tories (or whichever party is in power) will stop increases in our State pension as soon as they can, so that many will really struggle to survive in future years.

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    2. Dave said yesterday that even if the UK did quit the EU, it would make no difference to immigration; so, as someone with a UK passport I don't suppose it would make any difference.

      As for Dave's statement, I can't understand why the UK shouldn't insist on visitors or migrants having an entry visa. No visa, no entry; plenty of other countries do that.

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    3. I think they've left it a bit late for that Cro.

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  3. I feel as you do Cro and really will wait until the last minute to come down on one side or the other. Thefarmer is all for staying in as, I think, are most farmers. I think it is a case of 'rather the devil you know.'

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  4. My son has just done his EPQ as part of his final year of A levels on whether we should stay or leave the EU. He read widely around the subject and decided that marginally we should stay. His arguments were interestingeven though from his chosen political slant he would want to leave. As for me heaven only knows. I tend to just carry on dealing with my day to day concerns living my parochial life as Tracey Emin so quaintly put it! Arilx

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    1. I think we all want our 'sovereignty' back, but we don't want to lose trade. There should be a third choice; in, out, and on the fence.

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  5. I think it is much the same as when they had the vote in Scotland. There is no clear this is what it will look like after. They couldnt tell the Scottish if they would really be allowed to keep the pound. What would happen to them and their stance with the EU, would they have to apply again? What with the prices of oil, our family in Scotland are pleased that they didnt split, as all the things that were put forward were from a stance that they oil prices would stay high and pretty much never run out.

    They need to tell us all what it will look like, the frame work, what it will really mean to jobs and our import/export.

    Spanish tomatoes that we buy off season, what will they cost? Will we ship more from Africa. Will the normal folk like the hit in their shopping bills, their electricity prices, gas? there are so many things that we actually need answers to, to make informed decissions.

    But if we bow down and stay in, what will they make us accept? A closer union may not be in our best interests.

    I find it all a little scary.

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    1. If the whole UK was to vote to leave the EU, then Scotland would no doubt have another referendum (which they would win). They would then have to apply to become an EU member, and adopt the Euro. I can envisage Scotland then becoming another Greece.

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    2. I am Scottish voted yes.
      I so wan,t us to be independant, sure may be mistakes made, but will be our mistakes not London pulling our strings!.
      We decided young people matter so All university education free, all medication prescriptions free so families don't decide the can,t afford medication n get sicker, sure we pay for it in tax. National insurance.
      But we are a little country able to sit around a little table and give budget to what people want.
      Sure our roads are not great, just balancing budget.

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    3. Not many countries in the world if any give their children free university education free!. Making all children equal rich or poor!. As we say we are all,Jack Tamsons bairns. Meaning all equal!. X

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    4. I was rather disappointed with the Scottish 'no' vote. If we quit the EU, I shall be supporting a 'yes' vote soon after.

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  6. Never understood how Britain could keep Sterling yet still be in the EEC. Poland is the same with the Zloty.

    I think they only allowed free movement to create a cheap labour market from Eastern Europe.

    Countries like Ireland that is seventy percent Agricultural would probably support Britain staying in the EEC. I think CAP is unfair to smallholders and the EEC lets in refugees who aren't European citizens. Think they change the rules to suit themselves. None of what Cameron achieved couldn't be changed by faceless bureaucrats.

    Think there is no way back without being all together.

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    1. The UK should be like other member states. Vote for legislation in Brussels; then IGNORE. You only have to visit a fish market in France Spain or Italy to see that they totally ignore fishing regulations. It's the same with most other things.

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  7. it is very interesting and informative to read EU discussions that appear hereabouts. Our current political campaigning in the States is really difficult to believe. It seems very unreal to think that one of the current contenders could actually become President.

    Best wishes.

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    1. He does seem to have a lot of supporters. No-one over here took him seriously at first, now they're beginning to worry!

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    2. I didn't mean just the Him leading one of the party's polling, but also the Her on the other side. Both of them worry me.

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    3. Me too, but I thought you were just referring to 'Him'.

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  8. Wasn't there something rhyming about 'Holding hands with nurse for fear of something rather worse'? Both sides, to me, are using scare tactics and I wish there were what you could call an honest broker to deal with the many unanswered questions.

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    1. If you wish to find the sensible way to vote, just listen to which side Jeremy supports, then vote the other way. It never fails.

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  9. The truth is on trade the EU will not put import tariffs for any length of time. Germany industry for one would not tolerate it for one. The EU exports to the UK 1.5 times what we export to them. As for food that could drop in price as we would be able to import from African nations that we currently cannot, helping their economies in the process!
    What will panic the EU is a loss of some 20 percent of their budget and ruin their idea of an EU army.
    Whether we'll actually be allowed to leave is another story. Maybe, like Ireland, we'll be made to vote again until we get it 'right'.

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    1. If the UK did vote to quit, I wonder how many other countries would then follow suit.

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  10. The press certainly does wield a lot of power. In the US, Trump would be no where if he wasn't constantly mentioned in the press and TV with his scare tactics and entertainment.

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  11. Strange knock on effects -with all Eu citizens being able to move to the UK without prejudice, apparently the latest way of managing immigration is to stick it to the kiwis and aussies instead, as they ARE fodder for limiting. Not our fault the UK didn't think it through, sheesh

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    1. USers have had more restrictions place on their ability to stay in the UK as well. Those whom the UK can restrict, they will.

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    2. Oz has a very sensible points system for immigration. Two of my children have been through the gruelling process (and got through, of course).

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  12. Ole Boris has come out pro-Brexit. -just interested in bettering his chances as prime Tory contender?

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    1. I like Boris; intelligence usually wins.

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  13. I think you're right, passion is certainly lacking. that said though I think we'll be worse off in the long run if we leave.

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    1. No doubt things will heat up soon. I already hear that Dave and Boris are now at war.

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  14. I think the whole world is mad (apart from you very interesting blogging lot)

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